It's Time to Share...

[MikeS]

Debating the cost doesn't get to the guts of the question guys...

Yeah, I agree that $5 would probably be more realistic value for mp3s you download (as opposed to say $14.99 for a studio CD), but regardless of what it costs, the bottom line is this stuff is copyrighted by GD (is it not?), thereby (in theory, anyway) making public distribution via an ftp site such as TMH "illegal"...

Or, am I missing something inherently obvious?



M.

[VioletlightHeron]

ok, but what about the tapers at gord's shows? I'm assuming that what's available on THM isnt copied from the maplemusic source, doesnt that makes distribution on the ftp site technically legal, since the Band and Gord allow taping to happen? Once they give permission for taping to happen and don't set any restrictions on how it is distributed, i dont see how it makes it illegal. It would be interesting to find out exactly how much of the take Gord is getting from offering the live shows on Maplemusic or if Maplemusic is taking the lions share. My gut instinct says that Gord offered the live shows to those who either dont have the computer access(ie THM) or the time but want a copy to relive the glorious memories.

[MikeS]

I'm assuming that what's available on THM isnt copied from the maplemusic source

I'm working on the assumption they are the same ones available from MM (however, it's been weeks since I've been able to get into THM)...If they are true audience source boots, then yes, this isn't an issue...

If, however, they're the same mp3 files that GD made available for a fee on MM, then it's no different (in my mind, anyway) than uploading any of the Hip's studio recordings...

Not to be a fly in the ointment, but I've seen ftp sites shut down for far less...

M

[livehip]

actually if an artist releases a live recording of a show let's say the cobo hall from lbu, then that show is technically not supposed to be traded (legal issues)... but again it also depends on the artists stance.. look at phish.. they're one of the biggest taping bands out there, but when they release a live show, they tell their audience not to trade "bootlegged" shows.. or at least this is how it was a year ago..

[grooveless touque]

MikeS, you are right to assume that the MapleMusic recordings ARE the ones available on the ftp. There no audience recordings that are well known...if there were, we'd have a decent Halifax bootleg.

You are probably also right about the fact that these official bootlegs are copyrighted and all that. In fact, trading and downloading these official boots is probably just as illegal as downloading music...it's pirating. But did I download them? You bet. I download and I'm not asahmed of it. Mind you, I don't download a whole lot...I LIKE buying albums...but I take a little free on the side. And these MapleMusic things are unreasonably priced, with NO distribution costs, so I feel justified in downloading them. I might pay $10 for a nice CD package, but not for just MP3's to download and burn myself! Once Maple Music has sold ONE copy they've turned a profit on them!

[Ryan2]

The point that should be made is that the tour has been over for close to two months and everyone who will ever buy a boot has bought them by now - We have to keep in mind that the shows were'nt big ones and most people outside the hip fanbase are not familliar with gord's solo music and would not pay 1dollar let alone 10 for a boot -i think its great that everyone can listen to them and maybe they will pass on gords solo music to others and maybe they will buy one of his disc's-

[MikeS]

All good points guys...

Ryan's right, for GDs tour, it's probably not as big a deal, as the pool of people interested in bootleg recordings is likely fairly small (even amongst the Hip community).

However (putting on my devil's advocate hat again), if this was a test run to see how quickly the entire tour catalogue would be shared, the speed with which they lost "control" over the shows might cause them to have second thoughts about releasing a similar TTH tour bootleg collection together in the future.

Like I said, just something to keep in mind as you're pulling these shows down...

That said, if you're going to pull them down...be sure to share them with someone new to GD's solo music...think of it as your penance...



M.

[grooveless touque]

Penance...lol...good one. It's funny you should mention that because if Gord's shows weren't free and I hadn't downloaded them, two of my friend would not have become GD converts. I have two friends, one here and one in Winterpeg, who like the Hip casually but not GD's solo stuff. They were so impressed with the boots I mailed them that they both bought "BOTN"; one loved it and one just liked it, but hey, Gord made more off the sale of those CDs and the people who will let listen to them than he could have from the boot or two I would have bought!

BY THE WAY...Lance, if you read this...big thumbs up on the "quick reply" box!! Awesome idea!!

[dannya2]

I got this off of a pearl jam site



"There's no digital rights management, there's no tether to that (mp3) file, so they can do what they want with it,"

(taken from http://wwww.medialinenews.com/issues/20 ... 06_1.shtml)

[VioletlightHeron]

actually if an artist releases a live recording of a show let's say the cobo hall from lbu, then that show is technically not supposed to be traded (legal issues)... but again it also depends on the artists stance.. look at phish.. they're one of the biggest taping bands out there, but when they release a live show, they tell their audience not to trade "bootlegged" shows.. or at least this is how it was a year ago..

I'm curious as to how that works if there are audience source boots from those shows, do they not let taping occur on the shows they plan to release or post something on their websites asking the fans not to?

On the downloading issue, i agree with grooveless, but with one caveat. What irritates me the most about some Kazaa users is their wholesale copying a new album and posting it for downloading. It seems to me these downloaders have all the "big artist" albums on their shared files and to me thats just ripping off the artist and making things worse for the rest of us who want to find new, eclectic music and good songs from big artists. Taking a couple of hit songs here and there, finding new bands to like and going out and buying some of the cd's to support those artists is ok in my mind, ripping off the whole album is distasteful.

[livehip]

it's probably different, but I remember when Phish released their first one or two live shows that they asked fans (actually they didn't really ask, they said it was forbidden) to trade the shows that the band made available... but now that a lot more shows are being released I'm not sure how it goes anymore.

[briansmccabe]

Phish used to have a policy that any shown commercially released by the band was off limits for audience-recorded trading.

They did not ban trading at shows they intended to release, because obviously when they are on tour and recording nightly, they have no idea which shows - if any at all - will wind up being released. Every Phish show allows audience recording, and that's still the case.

HOWEVER, since Phish came off their hiatus in time for NYE 2002, they made two key changes in their taping policy. First and foremost, every show is being released via web download at livephish.com, for a per-show fee that is comparable to the Gord per-show fee. Because of this radical change in their live-release schedule, they altered their policy regarding the trading of audience recordings of commerically released shows. It is no longer forbidden to do so. So basically, with Phish shows, you have two options now: 1) Pay a fee and get a SBD copy of the show, or 2) pay nothing and get an audience recording of the show.

And believe me, the Phish trading community heavily policed itself and did a phenomenal job of adhering to Phish's policies. When trading of audience recordings of commerically released shows was banned, fans did not trade them.

Same goes for DMB. I haven't reviewed DMB's taping policy recently, but I have perused several DMB resources and have never seen any of the several commerically released DMB shows available for download within the confines of the DMB trading community - neither the SBD source nor any audience source. Once a show is released, any audience recordings of that show that are out there are pulled from being available to the public.